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Swifties.
Stand back and stand by.

❄️ be tripping
#Swift #NFL #football #Kelce #taylor

@blamellors I’ve seen some photos that suggest she’s making a lot of men very happy at football games.

@nam @blamellors

this is why NAS gets blocked, not genius comments that lefties don't want to see cause they prove their ideology silly. but saying it's the latter makes for a much better complaint re free speech etc.

@nam @blamellors

cause he continues to push the Sandy Hook conspiracy and apparently has no idea how fucked up that is to those families. so I made a joke and maybe he felt some tiny percentage of what those families feel. when people are unrepentant bullies, you don't just let them keep doing that shit. he thinks AJ shouldn't have had to pay anything. you guys think the left should take the abuse. the only reason this shocks you is cause most lefties just run away by blocking the servers.

@wjmaggos @nam @blamellors

Feels are not reals. His statements caused no actual damage.

That being said, although I was not an AJ watcher before, I would not be after.

@amerika @blamellors @nam

bad feels can hurt. imagine some guy making the Taylor joke about your daughter. or posting the AI porn. you'd punch the fucker. instead people like Trump get looked up to. it's so weird.

@wjmaggos Well, I’d get angry. However, I’d also realize that I hadn’t done enough to protect her and my family, as well as realizing that there was literally zero that I could do about it. Streisand effect.

@amerika @blamellors @nam

@Bunnyslope @wjmaggos @blamellors @nam

Part of #darkpluralism is that you expect to encounter the horrifying and upsetting.

After all, it is part of life; we cannot separate the two. This is the root of "maturation."

I paraphrase the summary:

"Dark Pluralism asserts a negation of universal truths, values, and communications; the best we can do instead is not to tolerate but to accept each other."

https://www.corrupt.org/boards/index.php/topic,14.0.html

I want rabbis and nazis walking the same streets and having civil conversations. Until then, humanity is just monkeying around.
abreactionDark PluralismDark Pluralism

@amerika @blamellors @Bunnyslope @nam

part of #darkpluralism would also be a strong bias towards anonymity and assholes. IRL when people discuss things, we don't call each other slurs and tell them to die. we don't do hell threads. we developed IRL ways of interacting over time cause they work best. maybe something else would work better online. but your current proposal would just mean fewer people participate and they tend to think more like you than the average person. unintentional? IDK

@wjmaggos @blamellors @Bunnyslope @nam

I disagree. I think over time, people would calm down, stop being offended, and start simply muting those who are irrelevant to them for whatever reason.

Proof: this is what happened on BBSes and USENET.

@amerika @blamellors @Bunnyslope @nam

the world doesn't use BBSes/USENET. afaik those are closed communities that attract certain audiences. FSE can defederate if it wants. I want a world where everybody feels welcome on fedi. like someone feels welcome discussing issues in public places. we compromise to do that, especially if we want people who disagree with us to feel welcome. we try to find ways to say things people might not want to hear in ways they might tolerate. that's the full ask.

@wjmaggos @blamellors @Bunnyslope @nam

I know it was before your time, but who do you think used BBSes?

It was a wide range of people. The Houston Museum of Natural Science got astronomy students calling. The Medugorje people convinced thousands of Catholics from all walks of life to call. Schools used them. Some were for horrorscopes, some were chats, some were porn, and so on.

In short, ordinary people used BBSes. USENET was standard for people on the internet back in the day, mostly college, telecom corp, and military. But these were normal people too.

There is no reason to differentiate the audience here.

A world where everybody feels welcome on the fediverse is one that excludes anything but happy opinions welcoming everyone.

That is both itself a type of lie, in that it is not representative of reality, and discriminatory.

@amerika @blamellors @Bunnyslope @nam

if somebody on a school bbs or usenet posted slurs, what would happen?

@wjmaggos @blamellors @Bunnyslope @nam

Depends on who the sysadmin is. If the school controlled the BBS, there might be penalties in the disciplinary system as well.

Then again, we are talking about children, am I correct?
@wjmaggos @blamellors @Bunnyslope @nam

I recall the ability to mention people by username and have it show up in their notifications, but it varied with the software.

BBS software was easily user-modified, and has a lot of variation itself anyway.

@amerika @blamellors @Bunnyslope @nam

so what I'm hearing is that it was/is a very different system that would not allow a worldwide network of anonymous people to easily search out others to tag with die slur in such a way that their only recourse was to individually block/mute them, only for them to use another account and do it again. correct?

cause that's what I have a problem with and think the "no policing" people here want. and it seems comparing the two doesn't shed light on anything.

Bunnyslope

@wjmaggos @amerika @blamellors @nam Kinda, sorta, not really.
Usenet and newsgroups are like NAS, only much larger, so the comparison is apt.

You can find people and interact with them, it’s just…different.
So far as creating a new account, it was much easier to filter the douches out, so there wasn’t a point in creating a new account just to be a troll.
Because everyone had to be somewhat computer literate to be on Usenet (or a BBS), users were competent in dealing with others.

@Bunnyslope @amerika @blamellors @nam

I get how NAS might be like usenet, but I am talking about the fedi generally. that's the biggest part of where his comparison doesn't make sense imo. unless there is fediblocking, what one server does can affect others. that's not true on a bbs afaik. even NAS instituted a check process to try to make sure new accounts were listeners. imo people who want almost zero rules on harassment on the fedi (and no server blocks) just want it to stay small or fail.

@wjmaggos
For this discussion BBS' don't apply. They're usually smaller communities, controlled by owners. Usenet is like the Fedi. Newsgroups are like NAS, or POA.ST For all intents and purposes, Usenet & Newsgroups are wide open. No blocks, no requirements to join a newsgroup. Literally like lurking on any platform, and interacting with whomever you please. Usenet is even more decentralized than the fedi. You can't take down a group, & posts can exist for years. @amerika @blamellors @nam

@wjmaggos
…or even decades. Probably what separates Usenet from social media as it exists today, is that in order to get access to read posts, you can sign up with a provider for free or you can pay for it. Providers who offer free accounts typically don’t see all the newsgroups and retention (how long the provider keeps the posts) can be measured in days or months.

@amerika @blamellors @nam

@wjmaggos @amerika @blamellors @nam Providers that offer paid accounts can usually see all the newsgroups and retention is in years or decades. Some providers will simply not pull in the feeds from newsgroups that are too spammy, dead, or they have an issue with. So, in that case, what happens in one group does affect what others can see.
Additionally, where tagging is generally not a thing, you can cross-post to any number of other groups when you post.

@wjmaggos
The information and shear volume of posts can sometimes feel like a firehose of data, especially when you first start out.
@amerika @blamellors @nam

@Bunnyslope @amerika @blamellors @nam

gotcha. if there's no tagging, no way to push something at me that I might not want to see like a slur, and no way to fill someone else's feed with stuff they don't want, it's not what I'm concerned about here.

even those things at an individual level are not my concern. it's when that can become so common for everyone or some group that it makes the overall network annoying to use for them. so they won't. it becomes censorship by another method.

@wjmaggos
The "feed" is literally all the posts in a newsgroup. So your feed is everyone else's feed. To put it in Mastodon parlance...
Usenet is like the Federated Timeline...You get everything (religous, cats, porn, snuff, etc.)
Newsgroups are like the Local Timeline...everything posted *there*.
Filtering is like the Mute/Block function...you'll never see what you don't want to.
That's why you should pick your Instance (newsgroups) carefully.
@amerika @blamellors @nam

@Bunnyslope @wjmaggos @blamellors @nam

If you want to analogize, the newsgroup names are tags.

If you want to go to alt.rock-n-roll.metal.death and post ethnic slurs, anyone who wants to talk about death metal gets hit by them.

There was even a group alt.fan.n*****s which was dedicated to being an early poa.st.
poa.stPoast
@Bunnyslope @wjmaggos @blamellors @nam

Non-technical people might miss how the Fediverse is just the latest incarnation of a series of protocols like NNTP and FIDOnet which spread posts from local nodes to worldwide systems.
@wjmaggos @Bunnyslope @blamellors @nam

No, if you want to hit someone with something they do not want to see, you just reply to their posts or post into newsgroups they use.
@Bunnyslope @wjmaggos @blamellors @nam

I have to disagree here -- people used multiple BBSes and spread content between them -- because of similarity in how topics were handled.

You could go onto a big BBS and post a message that would hit a generalized audience who would then spread it to others. You could post a text file, even in the AE days, that then made its way through the network.

If you read some of the background on these protocols, you will see how most of the old internet protocols were inspired by the BBS days, and social media was inspired by USENET and IRC.

@amerika
Yeah, poor choice of words. Mot that it doesn't apply, but I was trying to get across the point that Usenet & BBS aren't intertwineable for the purpose of comparison to the fediverse.
@wjmaggos @blamellors @nam

@Bunnyslope @wjmaggos @blamellors @nam

They are its ancestors, and so we can trace the patterns of this behavior to the present.

Kind of fascinating how the past is not even past, as some writer said once.

@amerika @blamellors @Bunnyslope @nam

so what did it take to post to a newsgroup or bbs? and what exactly did meower do? I mean we even used to have to pay for phone minutes back then. and they'd be pissed you were using the line. it wasn't like keeping open a browser window all day to shit post. you claim it was some kind of cultural evolution when there were so many other factors. if people could key cars with drones with no repercussions, it would happen more. same number of assholes.

@wjmaggos @Bunnyslope @blamellors @nam

USENET servers blocked each other if there was a flood of bad traffic, usually for technical reasons.

IMHO those who want zero rules on the fediverse want it to succeed by not repeating the mistakes of social media.
@Bunnyslope @wjmaggos @blamellors @nam

These were just mentally stronger users as well, in my recollection.

There was an anti-whiner culture which encouraged people to become better versions of themselves.