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@Twig
Is this "Russia" in the room with us right now?

@STP

Yes, in Mastodong 😁

@inscius @STP

👇

Russia has the lowest unemployment rate among G20 countries

@Twig @inscius @STP Russia is getting their act together, unlike much of the world.

@Bunsen @Twig @inscius @STP I don’t know if it was entirely deliberate, but Russia is now set up perfectly as the Holy Warriors of God tearing down the obviously-satanic globobomo.

Do not participate. 1 out of 6 Russians and their allies survive the attempt.

[Eze 38:2-6 KJV] 2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts [of armour, even] a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: [and] many people with thee.
@bobbala @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen Well that’s assuming it’s actually *the* End Times Prophecy unfurling - and not merely a “trial run”. Good keeping an eye out for the Signs of the Times; but no man knows the day or the hour.
[Eze 39:1-2 KJV] 1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
2 And I will turn thee back, and LEAVE BUT THE SIXTH PART OF THEE, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:
@bobbala @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen No point disputing the possibility; it could be It. Especially in light of my own experience coming out of ROCOR.

@Bunsen @bobbala @STP @Twig @inscius Yes, and it’s further complicated by satan continually trying to pull it off, and getting beat back over and over. No denying though there’s something really imminent about it, these days.

@KingOfWhiteAmerica @Bunsen @bobbala @STP @Twig @inscius Something that always sticks with me is the thought that the 'big evil' that people fight against can be seemingly pinned on so many groups. Yeah I'm fully aware of the JQ, but you hear interesting things about the Masons, knights templar, Jesuits, and all the various other powerbrokers around the world. None of these groups are all powerful and capable of pulling off 1,000 year+ grand conspiracies.
Ephesians 6:12 comes to mind.
>For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

@BowsacNoodle @Bunsen @bobbala @STP @Twig @inscius There’s not the least sliver of doubt in my mind all these orgs are demon-driven, and the jews are basically the body of satan.

jews think they are good because they were Chosen. God repeatedly tells them that is not why.

You think they can't be Chosen because they're not good.

Holiness has nothing to do with being good. Nobody is good. No not one. Being Holy is to be set apart.

@bobbala @STP @Twig @inscius @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen Me ? I think no such thing. I have a different Ecclesiology from yours, but I also don’t dispute today’s “jews” are “Chosen” for something …

If you have another candidate, who? Eskimos, Chinese, Apache? There are some African tribes that are Torah observant.

I'm not any kind of jew, real or imposter.
They were Peter, James and John.

[Luk 9:27 NKJV] 27 "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."

[Mat 16:28 NKJV] 28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

[Mat 17:1-2 NKJV] 1 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as White as the light.
@bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen Holy Transfiguration was one of the most significant events to the eventual Fall of The West - which wasn’t even noticed by them until some Westerners actually caught wind of what the Orthodox had been saying about St. Gregory Palamas. For centuries it was little more than a minor footnote, a bit of trivia around the “Error of the Greeks”.
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen Elaborate please. I've heard someone mention St Gregory Palamas but never any detail on this.
@BowsacNoodle @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen Sorry in advance for what might come across like an “effortpoast” - but it’s a joy as far as I’m concerned 😏

Many Orthodox to this day tie the falling away of Rome from the Church Universal, to the Filioque or Papal Supremacy. And while these were indeed the beginning of cracks in the Unity of Christendom, they could in theory at least be workable.
But the split was final and irrevocable by the time of the dispute between St. Gregory Palamas, and the monk Barlaam, whose impiety stemmed from his attempt to dispute Hesychasm. Because, in the process, he made an extreme Theological assertion; that is, that the Light beheld on Mt. Tabor by Sts. James, Peter, and John, was not the Uncreated Light, but rather, a mere creation.
In doing so, Barlaam cemented within the Bosom of The West a direct Theological *change* to the Faith-Once-Held-By-All. From this, the Western teaching of “Created Grace” spilled forth throughout all the land, largely unnoticed outside the Orthodox Lands, and a rift betwixt the two had been set.
It is logically impossible after that to jerry-rig the Communions back together. Flat-denying the Grace of God is an Uncreated Energy of God, represents the kind of change no hemming, hawing and handwaving can possibly fix.

@BowsacNoodle @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen Oh I should mention Barlaam “won” in The West, while St. Gregory Palamas stayed true to The Faith. It’s never been the same, since.

@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BowsacNoodle @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen Oh no, I did not know that! How could God's Grace be a created thing? Does it not just flow from God Himself? I've not ever heard of this before.
@Thusnelda @BowsacNoodle @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen In his zeal to justify his attack of Traditional Orthodox Monasticism, Barlaam was trying to prove that God is “unknowable” in Essence (which is true). So when the Holy Transfiguration was brought up, St. Gregory argued that - while Man indeed cannot know the Essence of God, through Divine Grace we are invited in Christ to participate in His Energies - which are Divine Attributes God can and often has revealed to us - and therefore can be known - by being invited in.
This has been the whole justification for Orthodox Monasticism since before Egypt; that devoting oneself wholly to this practice (Hesychasm) is indeed a worthy and God-pleasing exercise.
Barlaam was denying this - and did so so overzealously, that he made a Theological change. And that wouldn’t have been such a problem if it didn’t immediately become Rome’s official position !! One guy can be wrong, but all of Rome ?!
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BowsacNoodle @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen But why would Rome adopt something so obviously wrong?
Could there be more to it than this? I guess I'm looking for some sort of logical reason why Rome would think this is ok and there was no dissenting opinions on the matter.
@Thusnelda @KingOfWhiteAmerica @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen I'm way out of my wheelhouse here, but maybe because of the times and geopolitical conditions. I truly have no idea
@BowsacNoodle @KingOfWhiteAmerica @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen That's ok. I've never heard of any of this until just now. It's really disturbing my harmony, tho. It seems very wrong headed.
@Thusnelda @BowsacNoodle @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen That’s actually a really great question. I don’t know for certain, but it could be that The West didn’t appreciate monks and nuns spending 2/3rd of every day doing “nothing but praying”, and wanted fewer “idle hands”.
And it came on the heels of the ascent of the idea Absolute Supreme Papal Monarchy - which had a few embarrassments like the separate parallel papacies in Avignon; so it might have been a flex.
This also wasn’t too long after the Cathar thing, so maybe they felt that Trad Monasticism was asking for “that sort of trouble”.

Of course, none of these imo are anything like valid reasons to change basic Theology. Gosh, they’re not even really understandable. I don’t have a good, solid answer.
@KingOfWhiteAmerica @BowsacNoodle @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen Thank you for your answer.
I'm not a deep thinker on religion, but even to me, it seems glaringly, obviously wrong. I thought the Church had always been ok with monks and nuns spending much time in prayer. But what really is troubling me is the created grace idea. I can't wrap my brain around why that was thought to be a true thing.
@Thusnelda @BowsacNoodle @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen I know! Once I realized it, I was dumbfounded for at least an hour. And that it has gone on *for centuries*.
Sweet summer child, they burned people for disagreeing too much.

@Deplorable_Degenerate @Thusnelda @bobbala @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen In fairness to the Latins, very often in The West the lion’s share of resposibility for maintaining Social Order fell on their Hierarchy; it didn’t take long for them to realize that big outward displays of disagreement often entailed parallel explosions of chaos. I think this was typically (not always) the deciding factor in whether or not strict prosecution was appropriate.

@Deplorable_Degenerate @bobbala @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen @Thusnelda In terms of Social Order, it’s on about the same level as the “ideological” difference between the Union and the Confederacy. I know which team I’d have been rooting for, but eventually the actual shooting stops.

@Deplorable_Degenerate @bobbala @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen @Thusnelda And lest the wider point disappear behind this concession; Traditional Ecclesiology holds that the True Church, the very Body of Christ, *will not* promulgate errors and heresies - such a belief is indeed a facet of the Deposit of Faith.
As such, if Rome were correct regarding Created Grace and the rejection of Hesychasm, it implies the entire shared ancient Tradition of the United Church was either in error (not possible), or that Heychasm and Uncreated Grace hadn’t *really* been part of The Deposit. So of course they had to go with that, while the entire Christian East preserved what obviously *is and has always been* the teaching of the Church on the subject.
In accordance with the aforementioned belief that the True Church will not promulgate error - it’s obvious to the Orthodox that Rome left the Church. And as such, the events that have followed over the centuries in The West are viewed through that lens.
This has positively enormous geopolitical implications, which very often don’t even warrant the slightest mention in The West. Why would it ?
How do you have Grace without sin?
@bobbala @Deplorable_Degenerate @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen @Thusnelda Divine Grace is an eternal attribute of the Uncreated Energies of God - Who is the same today, yesterday and for all time.
Does God change because Man sins? No, rather Man is changed by being taken up into God’s Grace - having Union with Him by Faith.
Are you saying there has always been sin or you can somehow have Grace without sin?
[Rom 5:18-20 KJV] 18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
How can you have Grace without sin?

He's not answering the question. He just reiterated that Grace has always been.
@bobbala @BowsacNoodle @Deplorable_Degenerate @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @Bunsen @Thusnelda I did in fact answer the question; even in a state of sinlessness Man experienced Union with God by Faith. Yet fallen sinful Man understands this as Divine Grace, because He did not simply cast us out into outer darkness - but rather, sent His Son to take on *our* Nature and join it to Him.
@BowsacNoodle @bobbala @Deplorable_Degenerate @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @Bunsen @Thusnelda It’s pretty clear to me; Man in general experiences the Grace of God because sin makes God’s Uncreated Energies all the more obvious.
Assume somehow Man never sinned; this doesn’t somehow change God into merciless; He is as He Is and has always been, independently of what Man ever did.
But Salvation is an outflowing expression of God’s Essence (itself beyond comprehension) *through* His Energies - which can be known vis-a-vis Union with Him in Faith.
In my eyes that more firmly cements the reality of God’s Immutability; He continues ever to pour Himself out on our behalf.
Matthew chapter 24, verse 24

Even the elect, IE saved Christians, will be mislead by false doctrine.
@Deplorable_Degenerate @bobbala @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen @Thusnelda I don’t at all doubt that even the Elect can fall into error; what do you think are the Ecclesiological implications of this fact ?
@Deplorable_Degenerate @bobbala @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen @Thusnelda The passage in question:

> “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”
‭‭ ~ Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭24‬ ‭

So, false Christs and false prophets - vis-a-vis great signs and wonders.

So given *those* facts - what implications does this have for the Ekklesia ?
@Thusnelda @KingOfWhiteAmerica @BowsacNoodle @bobbala @c00p @STP @Twig @inscius @Bunsen I believe Rome simply didn't think it wrong, as Western Theology was under the influence of Neo-Platonist ideas that Uncreated Energy could never simply be interacted with by created beings. In their eyes, distance must always be maintained between the Uncreated Creator/Immoveable Mover, therefore any interaction with that Uncreated Divinity must always be a creation that God has placed between us and God proper.

It's a lot of bad logic and the Western idea of Divine Grace was intrinsically linked with Augustine's ideas of how grace should logically be given out. Rome's idea of Grace soon became something else entirely beyond the original concepts by the Church.

(This post contains a lot of quick drive-by analysis that barely touched on this thousand year old theological argument, fair warning)
What must one do to go to heaven?
[1Co 15:1-4 KJV] 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
@AmonMaritza @Appalachian_Crusader @bobbala @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen @Thusnelda Repent
Believe the Gospel
Recieve Holy Baptism
Trust and obey Lord Jesus until the end.

Of course, these are a very brief nutshell answers to that, based on St. Paul’s instructions to the Philippian jailer - who went on to become a Bishop iirc.
that sounds like the state of sanctifying grace to me.
We are saved purely by His Grace. Our sins are covered by Lamb's Blood. All of them. No exceptions.
thanks, bob. I know what Protestants think.
@AmonMaritza @bobbala @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @Appalachian_Crusader @Bunsen @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Thusnelda The East uses the term "Theosis" similar to "Sanctification" for Western Protestants.
be perfect as the father is perfect.
-Jesus
[Jhn 3:16-18 KJV] 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
@bobbala @AmonMaritza @STP @Twig @c00p @inscius @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Thusnelda Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 2 Peter 1:4
participate

does that mean I have to DO something?
Religion is man's attempt to justify himself to his god. Whatever that may be. Mother Nature or Gaia is one such god.

@bobbala @AmonMaritza @c00p @inscius @STP @Twig @Appalachian_Crusader @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen @KingOfWhiteAmerica @Thusnelda except if it wasn’t for chrstianity and monks in particular we would have nothing in moderation society literally. That’s the difference. One specifically attempted to preserve human history and the others ehh.

@Twig @bobbala @AmonMaritza @c00p @inscius @STP @Appalachian_Crusader @BowsacNoodle @Bunsen @Thusnelda I do believe it is; I have relatives who are religiously environmentalists. They are pretty much exactly how you would expect 😩
They're very easy to blaspheme.