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Join me on an interview of the average Bitcoiner!

So Bitcoiner, you believe that Government money is a scam?

> Yes, complete scam. All they do is print.

And you like Bitcoin because it isn't controlled by central bankers?

> Yes. The network is controlled by the miners.

So what happens when the Government bankers that you're seemingly slighting have no more use for Bitcoin for their own illicit purposes and outlaw the exchanges?

> ...

What happens when they shut down the Internet?

> ...

@eriner

> outlaw the exchanges?

an unsolved problem. bitcoin will still exist and function fine, but without an infrastructure which allows for daily use of bitcoin for daily needs... well, it's utility will drop through the floor, and the price will too.

> What happens when they shut down the Internet?

lol, who cares? End of everything. What happens when they shut down the ACH system? Same question.

@IceCubeSoup

> lol, who cares? End of everything.

Parts of the Internet can be selectively offlined without shutting down the whole Internet. I implied a whole shutdown, but you are correct that ending the Circuses is probably not advisable, so in practice it's more likely to be a selective shutdown. They'll make laws and go after the ISPs.

> What happens when they shut down the ACH system? Same question

ACH predated the Internet, but again, see above about a selective shutting down.

@eriner Yes, they could choke off the nodes by observing the traffic.

The only countermeasure would be for something like IPSec to be implemented globally, and for all communication channels to be stuffed to capacity to make traffic analysis difficult.

@IceCubeSoup yeah, which... isn't happening.

My point is that Bitcoin is ultimately at the mercy of the same Evil shits that make the Dollar. And it *REQUIRES* an uncensored Internet. No way around it.

It's just so silly. IMO, likely a Government fabricated trap; a controlled illusion that they could create a viable parallel economy free of Government. Bleed the skeptics of their Dollars, drive them into a box, and eventually reveal who's really in charge and rug pull.

Bitcoiners will be all:

@eriner @IceCubeSoup it will survive as long as the USA doesn't have total hegemony over the planet. it will survive in the USA as long as the illusion of freedom is profitable for the state to maintain and not a second longer.

@sun @IceCubeSoup

> it will survive as long as the USA doesn't have total hegemony over the planet

My view is admittedly US centric, however the logic can be applied to any Government. I guarantee when the rug-pull does happen, the US won't be the only Government doing it.

@eriner @IceCubeSoup the usa has already bullied several banking havens into compliance but there are still some that are more aligned with "the other hegemony". I honestly don't know but I don't discount it that there will remain many places that won't ban it simply because it weakens US hegemony more than it weakens theirs. really don't know.
Matt Hamilton

@sun @IceCubeSoup I don't disagree at all. Bitcoin itself will probably survive until some Government reveals that they broke all conventional prime factoring based cryptography. But it won't be usable as a currency for those that live in the "dark zone".

@eriner @IceCubeSoup the best possible outcome for government is simply that they break it and it naturally becomes worthless yeah. the second best is some kind of co-option. the government hasn't gotten serious at all about this yet. the developers aren't hidden or even well protected and the us government has no scruples whatsoever about framing, blackmail, threatening violence, committing violence on loved ones, etc.

@sun @IceCubeSoup plus, who can say with certainty that "Satoshi Nakamoto" isn't a pseudonym of Government Research Department #2293?

@eriner @sun From a mathematical point of view, it's immaterial.

Unless they broke factorization long ago, and they are playing a really REALLY long game.

But in order for the scheme to work, the crypto has to be solid.

@eriner @IceCubeSoup I can't say with certainty it's not a government ruse. our government for decades has leveraged and riled up UFO groups for still-unknown psyop uses against its own people. the reason I bring that up is that they obviously consider it important, it costs money, and it's fucking weird. so I can't write off other weird things.

that said, the paths I see for bitcoin being a giant ruse are implausible to me because it would take less time money and effort (and they also have the in-house experience) to just use terrorism to get us to switch to a cbdc